[Inquiry] Re: Futures Of Logical Graphs -- Discussion

[Jon Awbrey]

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FOLG.  Discussion Note 19

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JA = Jon Awbrey
JR = Joe Ransdell

Re: FOLG-DIS 17.  http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2005-November/003167.html
In: FOLG-DIS.     http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2005-November/thread.html#3167

In part, correcting a typo:

JA: Many of the difficulties in understanding what Peirce is saying about pure symbols
    pro or con, turn on the issue of what he meant by "involve" in the various texts.
    If the word lacks definition or is used in different senses in different places,
    then there is little hope of resolving the issue, though it would explain some
    of the divergences in what he says.

Joe, Peirce List,

Thanks for the correction and the dictionary glosses --
I will add the latter to the archive stacks.  They do,
as you might expect, range over all the usual senses of
the ordinary English word "involve", and there just about
any old lexicon would do the trick, but it's certainly fun
to read all the quotations that Peirce excavated.  We still
have the task of choosing the meanings that fit the present
context.  I will have to disagree about the importance of
definitions, though, as I find that red herrings thrive
best in bodies of whatever that lac them.

Jon Awbrey

JR writes:
>
> REPLY:
> I assume you meant to say "pure symbols" instead of "pure icons", Jon, so 
> I'll  take that for granted.  I don't think the issue between us, regarding 
> the symbol-icon relationship  hinges on anything that requires a precise 
> defintion of "involves", Jon, which seems to me to be a "red herring in that 
> respect.  But I will return to that in a separate message.   I suggest, 
> though, that when the question of what exactly Peirce might mean by a word 
> which occurs in ordinary discourse the first thing to do is to talk a look 
> at the definition of the word in the Century Dictionary, which is available 
> online and is easily usable if you download the special software they 
> recommend for accessing the definitions in the dictionary.   I ran across a 
> place in Peirce recently -- I failed to jot down a reference to it, 
> unfortnately --  where he remarks that his starting point of investigation 
> when he wonders about what a word means is to turn, first of all, to that 
> dictionary, a copy of which he keeps handy.   The Dictionary itself is still 
> regarded today as a lexicographical masterwork and landmark, and Peirce was 
> himself a major contributor to it and put in tremendous labor at that task. 
> Thus the entry there may well be -- wholly or in part -- due to Peirce, 
> though whether it is or not has to be verified by reference to a copy of it 
> with Peirce's indications of what is due to him.   Martin Lefebvre has 
> recently verified one or maybe two of those entries for me, and he will 
> probably be glad do so again for this word as well, but there are a number 
> of other Peirce scholars who can also check that out.  But even if it is not 
> by Peirce it is still relevant to check it out, given what Peirce says about 
> his own methodology as a philosopher, which integrates his expertise as a 
> lexicographer.  I'll return to that point, too, in another message, but the 
> purpose of the present message is simply to make that definition available 
> here for what it is worth.  I will comment on it in the separate message :
> 
> 
> Definition of "INVOLVE" in Century Dictionary
> 
> 
> INVOLVE (in-volv'), v. t.; pref. and pp. involved, involving.
> [< OF. involver = Sp. envolv'er = Pg.involver = It. involvere < L. 
> involv'ere, roll in, roll up, wrap up, < in, in, on, +volvere, roll: see 
> volute. Cf. convolve, devolve, evolve, revolve.]
> 
> 1. To roll or fold in or wrap up so as to conceal; envelop ori all sides; 
> cover completely; infold; specifically, in zoology: to encircle completely: 
> as, a mark involving a joint; wings involving the body.
> 
>    If it [the sun] should, but one Day, cease to shine,
>    Th' vnpurged Aire to Water would resolve,
>    And Water would the mountain tops involve.
>                  Sylvester, tr. of Du Bartas's Weeks, i. 4.
> 
>                                      A rolling cloud
>    Involv'd the mount; the thunder roar'd aloud.
>               Pope, Iliad, xvii. 671.
> 
>    The further history of this neglected plantation is involved in
>    gloomy uncertainty.
>                Bancroft, Hist. U.S., I. 85.
> 
> 2. To entwine; entangle; implicate; bring into entanglement or complication, 
> literally or figuratively: as, an involved problem; to involve a nation in 
> war; to be involved in debt.
> 
>    Judgement rashly giv'n ofttimes involves the Judge himself.
>               Milton, Eikonoklastes, xii.
> 
>     Some of serpent kind,
>     Wondrous in length and corpulence, involved
>     Their snaky folds.
>               Milton, P. L., vii. 433.
> 
>     Fearing that our stay till the very excessive heats were past
>     might involve us in another difficulty, that of missing the
>     Elesian winds.
>                Bruce, Source of the Nile, I. 43.
> 
>    We seem to have certain direct perceptions, and to attain
>    to others by a more or less involved process of reasoning.
>               Mirart, Nature and Thought, p. 12.
> 
> 3. To bring into a common relation or connection; hence, to include as a 
> necessary or logical consequence; imply; comprise.
> 
>     The welfare of each is daily more involved in the welfare
>     of all.
>                H. Spencer, Social Statics, p. 483.
> 
>     A knowledge of the entire history of a particle is
>     shown to be involved in a complete knowledge of
>     its state at any moment.
>                 W.K. Clifford, Lectures, I. 3.
> 
>     All kinds of mental work involve attention.
>                J. Sully, Outlines of Psychol., p. 13.
> 
> 4. In arith. and alg., to raise to any assigned power; multiply, as a 
> quantity, into itself a given number of times: as, a quantity involved to 
> the third or fourth power. = Syn.
> 
>     2. Entangle, etc. (see implicate); twine, intertwine, interweave, 
> interlace.-- 
> 
>     3. Imply, Involve (see imply); embrace. contain.
> 
> END OF DEFINITION
> 
> Joe Ransdell

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